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Rush - Only in a staight Line?

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jgemrich



Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 90
Location: cincinnati

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:25 pm    Post subject: Rush - Only in a staight Line? Reply with quote

OK - I've heard this many times but it isn't in the rules or in the FAQ that I can locate.

I believe a strider can make a rush movement in many possible manners. C shap , S shape....etc. Has there been a ruling that they can only move in a straight line? The FAQ says they may move around obstacles but does not indicate whether the path of movement may be taken to maximize figures trampled by the Strider.

Thank you in advance for the direction to this clarification.
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Caern



Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 559
Location: 111-2 North Listening Post

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the 'Running over Infantry' section of your rulebook, first paragraph

"A combat strider or a vehicle may run over infantry. Armored fighting vehicles, like any other fighters, always seek the most direct route. It is out of question to zigzag among enemy fighters to run them over, when you can blast them, burn them, mince them or do anything else along that line!"

You must move in as direct a line as possible to get to your intended destination. As stated earlir "The fighters are not out on a stroll; they move from onepoint to the next as directly as possible, going round obstacles when needed."

edit: To sum - in general, anything in this game must take the most direct path towards the destination it intends. It is not acceptible to make unusual movements
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jgemrich



Joined: 11 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So a "C" shape is unusual? I mean I guess the most direct path between 2 points is a straight line. But you can move around obtacles etc on this path per the FAQ.
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Gregoire BOISBELAUD



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 214
Location: Ava

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have to take the shortest way to your opponent.

If the straight line is possible, so do it.
If you have to go round something, take the shortest way round it. Wink
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jgemrich



Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 90
Location: cincinnati

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gregoire BOISBELAUD wrote:
You have to take the shortest way to your opponent.

If the straight line is possible, so do it.
If you have to go round something, take the shortest way round it. Wink


I want to take the shortest way to my opponent but the longest way through him when I get there. Very Happy
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aukenlak



Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 399
Location: So Cal

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's over powered as it is, try not to make it even more so. Wink
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Evil Bob



Joined: 20 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My opinion for the whole two cents or less it is worth, that the direct route and zigzag were meant for a strider to pick a straight line on the actual trampling, but you can use prior movement to line yourself up for the line of stomping.

It could be read that you pick your trampling line and move as straight as possible to cover as many fighters along that line as can be. If that were the case I would think there would be a little more definition in the rules.
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aukenlak



Joined: 27 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Er, I misread that bit. Embarassed
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Last edited by aukenlak on Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Caern



Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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Location: 111-2 North Listening Post

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The entire 'direct route' orders apply to everything in this game, not just striders.

It is simply reminded to people in the rules for running over infantry that you cannot move around to stomp as much as possible. You pick a point and you get there in the shortest way possible, as the rules have stated, and Gregoire has backed up.

Otherwise you are just deciding that the rules don't apply to your army, or that they only apply in certain ways, or that they are not to be taken literally and can be 'fudged' a bit. And that's very unsportsmanlike. I wouldn't play someone who insisted on being able to ignore the rules and try lining things up just so. It's a rushed charge in an attempt to catch infantry off guard, full speed ahead, not a dance.
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you may consider that the political commissars are on their coffee break. Nothing better than a large revolutionary latte with skimmed milk sprickled with chocolate powder to fuel the flame of collectivism.
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Professional Lurker



Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Caern has said, all movements are to be the most direct routes possible.

Quoth the rules, page 58 under Movement:

Quote:
The fighters are not out on a stroll; the move from one point to the next as directly as possible, going round obstacles when needed.


This applies to all movement, not just a rush to hit the squishies.
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jgemrich



Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 90
Location: cincinnati

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is somebody arguing w/ what the posters have said?

I'm glad 5 folks have wanted to weigh in. I was just looking for where to find/how to interpret the decision.

The big smiley behind the "shortest route to them...longest route through them" means the statement was in jest. Not that I was trying to break the rules.

Thanks to you all. I got it.
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aukenlak



Joined: 27 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know, the wink was to show I was kidding too.
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Evil Bob



Joined: 20 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professional Lurker wrote:
As Caern has said, all movements are to be the most direct routes possible.

Quoth the rules, page 58 under Movement:

Quote:
The fighters are not out on a stroll; the move from one point to the next as directly as possible, going round obstacles when needed.


This applies to all movement, not just a rush to hit the squishies.

Good point. Well cited and stated. My mind has been changed. Thank you Professional Lurker.
Caern wrote:
Otherwise you are just deciding that the rules don't apply to your army, or that they only apply in certain ways, or that they are not to be taken literally and can be 'fudged' a bit. And that's very unsportsmanlike. I wouldn't play someone who insisted on being able to ignore the rules and try lining things up just so. It's a rushed charge in an attempt to catch infantry off guard, full speed ahead, not a dance.

People are not going to be able to take you seriously Caern if you are so actively hostile towards those who disagree with you. No matter who agrees or what pages the rules are cited on.


My apologies to Jgemrich if my involvement has dirtied his post in any way.
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Caern



Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever you want to believe Wink . Deflecting the situation onto me does not change the fact that such rules fudging is unsportsmanlike and leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

If you had bothered to read, the text that 'changed your mind' was part of my first post on that thread. But reading is such hard work. I'm not going to dignify such behavior with further response.
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you may consider that the political commissars are on their coffee break. Nothing better than a large revolutionary latte with skimmed milk sprickled with chocolate powder to fuel the flame of collectivism.
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Evil Bob



Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caern wrote:
Whatever you want to believe Wink . Deflecting the situation onto me does not change the fact that such rules fudging is unsportsmanlike and leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

If you had bothered to read, the text that 'changed your mind' was part of my first post on that thread. But reading is such hard work. I'm not going to dignify such behavior with further response.

Deflecting? That was my point. “Discuss” don’t “hate.” Personally I don’t know if you intend this but the impression you are giving is that anyone who disagrees with you is unsportsman and such bad people shouldn’t be gamed or reasoned with.

Your first post didn’t reference page 58 in any way. You copied text out of page 59 without any reference to that page and stated your view. Although I knew where to look for that text and read it myself. So I did read your post.

Professional Lurkers post is a great example of how to handle these things. Keep it simple, reference information in method that can be verified, and no spin.
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Caern



Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 559
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll eat crow and will respond, since you are trying to make a point. Just because someone disagrees with you, Bob, doesn't mean they hate. And it's still unsportsmanlike, like a person playing that-other-game who measures how far to move a figure from the front of their base and ends the movement at the back of the figure's base. This is the internet, devoid of tone. Just because you think someone 'hates' doesn't mean they do.

And now I'll bold where I mentioned it. I didn't give a page number but I mentioned it nonetheless.

Caern wrote:
From the 'Running over Infantry' section of your rulebook, first paragraph

"A combat strider or a vehicle may run over infantry. Armored fighting vehicles, like any other fighters, always seek the most direct route. It is out of question to zigzag among enemy fighters to run them over, when you can blast them, burn them, mince them or do anything else along that line!"

You must move in as direct a line as possible to get to your intended destination. As stated earlir "The fighters are not out on a stroll; they move from onepoint to the next as directly as possible, going round obstacles when needed."

edit: To sum - in general, anything in this game must take the most direct path towards the destination it intends. It is not acceptible to make unusual movements


If you want to discuss, then please do read. I'm not interested in this juvenille, slap on the wrist 'that's not how you cite something' junk.

edit: Why would I make such a comment in the first place? Because all of the data - all of the relevant text including the quote that changed your stance - and a confirmation from a Rackham representative themself to make it fully official, had already drawn the conclusion. Yet, you still suggested after all that, that a player could choose to interpret it differently. That *is* rules fudging, deciding that some don't apply to you, and so on. When you try to bend the rules laid down by the game's own creators when the correct solution has just been presented, that is bad sportsmanship.
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Collin KELLY wrote:
you may consider that the political commissars are on their coffee break. Nothing better than a large revolutionary latte with skimmed milk sprickled with chocolate powder to fuel the flame of collectivism.
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Evil Bob



Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will state it once again. You cited page 59 which did not answer the topic at all. It only refers the actual action of trampling. As a result it is only natural from that part alone people can walk away with different understandings.

Page 58 with movement states that all movement must be the most direct route. That is the page that clears this all up. If there was free-based regular movement then things could be radically different.
Caern wrote:
If you want to discuss, then please do read. I'm not interested in this juvenille, slap on the wrist 'that's not how you cite something' junk.

If you feel that I was slapping you on the wrists then I apologize for that.

Do you understand that properly citing something isn’t just professional, it just makes sense. Juvenile would be attacking people or lumping others into groups, or throwing spin on the comments.

Aside “eating crow,” means to admit when one is wrong. Something that I have freely admitted here and elsewhere when rational debate and proof leads there. What it does not mean, “excuse me but right now I’m gonna jump down your throat.”


I am not debating the concept of bad sportsmanship. Just the keeping it as a handy label to stick on people who dissagree.
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Caern



Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 559
Location: 111-2 North Listening Post

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evil Bob wrote:
I will state it once again. You cited page 59


I didn't cite any numbers. I reffered to what section heading to look for. So don't even try and get ridiculous about which page reference I cited and whether I was right or wrong about the page number. I didn't mention any page. So stop trying to lawyer this ridiculous page number bullcrap one way or the other. I copied text from both pages. No page numbers were ever referenced, and really at this point you're just ignoring reality itself. I copied text from 59, and then also copied text from 58 later which I just bolded in the post above to make it obvious.

If you can't see it bolded in my previous post, you're really not even looking, and simply can't *bear* to not have the last word. It's pretty bloody obvious to anyone actually reading that 1. I never gave a page number, just a heading and 2. I referenced the text from 58 and not only that, bolded it in my second post (edit: second post of that same text, that is) just to make it easy for you. Plus the text from 59.

Quote:
I am not debating the concept of bad sportsmanship. Just the keeping it as a handy label to stick on people who dissagree.


If you had merely disagreed, that would be one thing. No, you tried to twist the rules after it had been confirmed officially by a Rackham rep, and continue to try and further twist this thread further and further away from it's purpose. You do that with every post.
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Collin KELLY wrote:
you may consider that the political commissars are on their coffee break. Nothing better than a large revolutionary latte with skimmed milk sprickled with chocolate powder to fuel the flame of collectivism.
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Evil Bob



Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caern wrote:
Evil Bob wrote:
I will state it once again. You cited page 59


I didn't cite any numbers. I reffered to what section heading to look for. So don't even try and get ridiculous about which page reference I cited and whether I was right or wrong about the page number. I didn't mention any page.

You are correct what I should have said, "the rules you referred to are on page 59."
Caern wrote:
So stop trying to lawyer this ridiculous page number bullcrap one way or the other. I copied text from both pages. No page numbers were ever referenced, and really at this point you're just sticki. I copied text from 59, and then also copied text from 58 later which I just bolded in the post above to make it obvious.

Your copied text was only from page 59. Your answer about fighters having to take the most direct amount was correct but you didn't reference anything so at that point it appeared as an opinion. The book, FAQ or other post don't matter if you can't show proof.

It is not rules lawyering when explaining why someone at first came to a different conclusion.

Caern wrote:
If you can't see it bolded in my previous post, you're really not even looking, and simply can't *bear* to not have the last word. It's pretty bloody obvious to anyone actually reading that 1. I never gave a page number, just a heading and 2. I referenced the text from 58 and not only that, bolded it in my second post just to make it easy for you. Plus the text from 59.

Quote:
I am not debating the concept of bad sportsmanship. Just the keeping it as a handy label to stick on people who dissagree.


If you had merely disagreed, that would be one thing. No, you tried to twist the rules after it had been confirmed officially by a Rackham rep, and continue to try and further twist this thread further and further away from it's purpose. You do that with every post.

Twisted the rules? As I recall I was simply wrong about movement and admitted it, even thanked Professional Lurker. That isn't twisting rules just a poorly done effort on my part. Caern can you identify what you have done wrong in this thread?
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Caern



Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evil Bob wrote:
Your answer about fighters having to take the most direct amount was correct but you didn't reference anything so at that point it appeared as an opinion.


It was in quotes exactly like my previous text. I didn't give an exact reference except to say 'earlier' as to it's location. You and everyone else knows that quotation marks ( " ) designate something being quoted.

Evil Bob wrote:
Caern can you identify what you have done wrong in this thread?


Not asking you to take your many issues to private message sooner. That was my mistake. Now I've corrected it. If you've got some kind of weird hang-up about this, PM me.
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