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wolflord
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 1811
Location: Larkspur, CA
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 Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:03 pm Post subject: targeting stealthed units and indirect deviation |
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We need help figuring out what happens with indirect weapons when fired at a unit who is stealthed and beyond range 1.
There is this ruling here that says that the stealthed unit cannot be targeted and thus cannot be damaged.
http://en-forum.at-43.com/viewtopic.php?t=2342
Then there is this ruling that says the shots are considered failures and the template deviates as normal.
http://en-forum.at-43.com/viewtopic.php?t=2503
They seem to contradict one another, unless we are missing something.
1. Can you attempt to fire an indirect weapon (not a flamer) at a stealthed unit beyond range 1? There is ruling below that seems to indicate that you have to be in range to even target them with artillery. Would the same hold true for indirect fire or is artillery treated as something completely different for these purposes?
http://en-forum.at-43.com/viewtopic.php?t=1655
2. If you target a nearby unit who you can see with indirect and the template deviates over a stealthed unit, do the stealthed fighters get hit and take damage or can they not be damaged since they cannot be targeted?
3. Is there a difference between an automatic failure and all misses for indirect weapons? Please see this thread here where we try and figure out if automatic failures mean the shot is lost entirely and no deviation template or whether it automatically deviates 10 cm and still hits things (like the stealthed unit) under the template.
http://en-forum.at-43.com/viewtopic.php?p=67103
4. Do the rules for flamers still trump all of this since they cannot deviate and you can still pick a target within 25 cm even if it is stealthed? They are a special case since they do not ever roll to hit, correct?
http://en-forum.at-43.com/viewtopic.php?t=2039
Many thanks and a Happy and successful New year to you!
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JB LULLIEN-KOCHANSKI
Dragon
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 239
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:21 am Post subject: |
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Hello officer wolflord !
First of all, the UN GHQ wishes you a good and happy new year !
Concerning the contradiction between the two topics you mention, your are right, and the second is the good one : an indirect fire against stealth targets that are out of seeing range automaticly miss, but the deviation occurs and if it goes in the right way, the stealth unit may receive some hits.
Concerning your other questions, they will need separate answers, so...
| Quote: |
| 1. Can you attempt to fire an indirect weapon (not a flamer) at a stealthed unit beyond range 1? |
Yes you can. It automatically miss and deviate, but you can.
| Quote: |
| There is ruling below that seems to indicate that you have to be in range to even target them with artillery. Would the same hold true for indirect fire or is artillery treated as something completely different for these purposes? |
The artillery strikes use the rule of locked shot and need to be called by an officer or leader. That was the meaning of my collegue's answer. For everything else, artillery strikes follow the ordinary rule and miss automatically if the target has stealth and is beyond range 1 ; the measure is made from the position of the leader that has called the strike.
| Quote: |
| 2. If you target a nearby unit who you can see with indirect and the template deviates over a stealthed unit, do the stealthed fighters get hit and take damage or can they not be damaged since they cannot be targeted? |
Yes they take damage. Shrapnel is blind, so stealth is not such a concern for it...
| Quote: |
| 3. Is there a difference between an automatic failure and all misses for indirect weapons? Please see this thread here where we try and figure out if automatic failures mean the shot is lost entirely and no deviation template or whether it automatically deviates 10 cm and still hits things (like the stealthed unit) under the template. |
I'm not sure to understand the meaning of your question. Automatic failure means that when you try to shoot, all the dices indicate a failure and so, all misses in all cases, even for indirect fire. But in the case of the indirect fire, this doesn't mean that nothing is hit, because the shell will finally reach the floor and detonate with effect. A missile or a bullet have very little chance to hit something by chance. A big explosion filled with shrapnel, on the contrary, has a good chance to kill something.
In conclusion, automatic failure means a 10 cm deviation for indirect fire, not that the shot is lost entirely.
| Quote: |
| 4. Do the rules for flamers still trump all of this since they cannot deviate and you can still pick a target within 25 cm even if it is stealthed? They are a special case since they do not ever roll to hit, correct? |
Yes, since, there is no roll to see if the shot hits, it can't miss. Stealth units burn like any other unit if they get too close from the flame 
Thank you for your question and, once again, happy new year !
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Jean-Baptiste Lullien-Kochanski
Rédacteur
jb.lullien@rackham-e.com
In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it. |
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